Karl Lagerfeld Sucks
It's always good to keep track of who totally sucks, and today's addition to the list is Karl Lagerfeld, who is pissed off that his clothes were made to fit larger (size 14) people:
""What I really didn't like was that certain fashion sizes were made bigger. What I created was fashion for slim, slender people. That was the original idea... Incomprehensible decisions made by the management have removed any desire I had to do something like that again."
Ironically, Karl Lagerfeld used to be very overweight, lost weight, and has apparently just published a diet book. I guess the reward is fitting into his skinny-people-only clothes, right, Karl?
""What I really didn't like was that certain fashion sizes were made bigger. What I created was fashion for slim, slender people. That was the original idea... Incomprehensible decisions made by the management have removed any desire I had to do something like that again."
Ironically, Karl Lagerfeld used to be very overweight, lost weight, and has apparently just published a diet book. I guess the reward is fitting into his skinny-people-only clothes, right, Karl?
20 Comments:
This skinny idolatration thing is totally out of control. But at least the people who wrote the article understood how outrageous it is. I read about it on Big Fat Blog but it was another article, on a fashion site, and no one said a word about how awful it was, the writer just acted as if it was a totally normal attitude to treat bigger women as trash. It's a meat-eating world. How can we expect it to be sane? :P (kidding)
Feel free to flame me, but at least read what I have to say first... because I think he may have a point.
This guy is a fashion designer who obviously takes pride in his clothes. The line discussed in the article was designed to fit a certain body shape. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he's talented (I'm not familiar with his clothes). What seems to have happened is that people made scaling variations on his designs without his input.
Think about it this way. If you designed cars for Ford, and crafted a nice, suitable, good looking little convertible and they took the body and scaled it up to become their new fullsize sedan, would you be happy? Probably not - because the result is almost certainly not going to be very good. You, as an artist, would have designed the sedan differently. That doesn't mean its better or worse than the smaller convertible, just that different criteria result in a different finished product. Heck, can you imagine a scaled-up six seater Mini? Or a microscopic Dodge Magnum? Both are good examples of designs that fit their purpose - including its scale - very well, but wouldn't resize very nicely.
Nowhere did I read that this guy didn't think that larger people should have good looking clothes. I saw nothing to indicate that he wouldn't have been happy to accept a commission to do so in fact. Having been overweight himself, he would probably know a lot more about it than many other designers. What he seems to be upset about is the fact that now his name is attached to products that he considers substandard, beneath his ability. For someone whose career rises and falls based on just such impressions, this is a Big Deal.
One addendum - the article was pretty thin on details, especially from Lagerfeld. There was one quote from the store, "I don't understand why he said what he said because we've been very clear from the beginning it was to be a full-size range." This doesn't seem to fit with Lagerfeld's comments, or the fact that this range was designed to enhance smaller sizes. If this was the case, then (IMO) the store shouldn't have accepted, or paid for, his designs in the first place if they didn't meet their requirements. If this wasn't an original requirement but has been added to the mix, then I'll stand by my previous comments. Either way, I can still see him not liking the way the chain resized his designs.
Richard, I'm glad you're here and always providing such thoughtful comments. I have to say though, I think you are giving Lagerfeld too much credit. I agree there may be a legitimate reason for him to be upset, but I don't see him designing clothes for larger women, which he could easily do if he wanted to, because he's Karl Lagerfeld. Saying he would be happy to do it is possibly wishful thinking.
Richard, I'm not about to flame you; your comments are thoughtful and well-reasoned, insofar as design requirements differing, etc.
However, I AM familiar with Karl Lagerfeld's work over the past decades. He has always, always designed for the very thin - except for the years when he has designed for the very very thin. Even at his heaviest, he has never designed for "larger" women (size 10 and over - yes, this is the world that considers a 10/12 a "Large").
It is disingenuous, at best, for him to be outraged; you can bet that the terms of the contract gave H&M the rights to his designs. We're talking international contract law here, with bunches o'lawyers, not he said - they said. Everything would have been spelt out most specifically. The most minimal research would reveal that H&M goes up to a size 26 in some of its stores. If it never even OCCURRED to Mr. Lagerfeld - or his battery of attorneys - that the designs would be sized in accordance with the sizes H&M carries - he's inhaled too much fabric dust.
I also am utterly lacking in sympathy over the fact that he's all bent out of shape over the fact that of the H&M stores carrying his designs, none are in Eastern Europe. Mr. Lagerfeld seemed to think that that smacked of snobbery: "I find it embarrassing that H&M let down so many people. I don't think that is very kind, especially for people in small towns and countries in Eastern Europe." [Link to the article quoted is in bigfatblog.com] How kind of him to believe that really really thin people in small towns and Eastern Europe should have access to well-designed, reasonably priced clothing. Too bad for the rest of us.
I would have personally liked it better if H&M had contracted with companies like Donna Karan and Liz Claiborne - or even Ralph Lauren - who have lines for larger women, but H&M is a European company, and were seeking the cachet of a notable European designer; a designer who is, alas, notably anti-fat. Heck, I wish H&M had gone for Azzedine Alaia or Ungaro - at least they design with curves in mind.
The reality is- once a designer jumps ship and lands in the real world, complete with larger sizes- he/she loses their designer creed with the blue bloods and such.
I have to say, it doesn't bother me one bit- why is it such a deal? He has the right to design for anyone and being a jerk with a big mouth is a hard earned freedom we all want until it affects us.
Does anyone really get worked up when a line doesn't offer petites?
I'm with Richard on this one.
And I'm speaking as someone who's been both sewing her own clothes AND watching carefully the likes of Karl Lagerfeld for, oh, thirty years or so. Remember when he started designing for Chloé? Frnakly, i never did think much of his creations, never understood what the fuss was all about. Still don't.
But, I do understand why he'd be so bent about H&M sizing up his clothes for sizes he hadn't thought about designing for. After all, these pieces of fabric have his name on them. And it's [I]only his name[/I] that's selling them! H&M is getting a HUGE amount of free press out of this. Which will have a very favorable impact on their bottom line. And one must consider that quality of contruction of items produced by/for H&M, or rather the [I]lack[/I] of quality. I doubt very seriously that when they upsized Karl's designs that they did a proper job of it. That would cost money and eat into their profits. I'd be very surprised to see that the larger sizes fit as well as the smaller sizez.
When I first started sewing for myself I was several sizes smaller than I am now. The styles and shapes and fabrics that looked great on me then really do not look so hot now. However, :D, there fabrics and shapes and styles that I simply couldn't carry off then that make me look REAL hot now!!!!! ;)
Trust me, kids, designing for a "voluptuous" body is an entirely different experience from designing for a "slender" body.
On whether the Karl Lagerfeld for H & M garments work at larger sizes: I bought a pair of black trousers from the range at size 14 and they fit brilliantly, and I think I look fine in them. However, this may not be the case with all the garments. A friend of mine looked longingly at one of the dresses, but then decided not even to try it on, as she thought it wouldn't hang right on anyone who wasn't flat-chested. She's the same size as I am, sometimes a size smaller, depending on the garment. However, I think that enough people were happy with the line at all sizes. Less than a month after the line was launched, virtually everything is gone from my local branch of H & M.
As with the Bridget Jones item, remember that UK size 14 is equivalent to US size 10. Possibly smaller in H & M, which is notorious around here for small sizing in comparison with other stores.
I'm afraid that while I take the point that Ms Labelle is making concerning the fact that some clothes look better on some bodies than on others, I think that Mr Lagerfeld's quote indicates something rather more pejorative.
However, the fashion world has different standards of normality. The fashion editor of the Guardian newspaper - who is a slim woman in her early 30s - recently wrote that every time she goes to the international fashion shows, she's on a diet by the second week, after being exposed to nothing but models and those who try to look like them.
And I do really like those trousers.
I am officially boycotting Karl Lagerfeld. (Is it a boycott if you couldn't afford his clothes anyway?)
I think where the world has gone out of whack is in expecting normal women to look like models. That didn't use to be the case - there have always been "ideal" shapes and sizes, but it was understood that most people don't match that ideal, until about the 1960s, when with the advent of bikinis and tiny clothing, women couldn't wear the fashions at all unless their bodies were the specific shape. You couldn't use undergarments or padding to mimic the "ideal" anymore.
Designers have always designed on thin women, solely for the reason that the thin body doesn't distract from viewing the clothes, on the runway and in photo shoots. Lagerfeld is no different from any other designer in building his clothes on toothpick-shaped women, but he's fecking nuts if he thinks his customers are supposed to fit that shape. We -if we were actually buying his stuff- WE are paying him for clothes; if he can't handle that economic fact he might want to consider another career where he doesn't have to deal with either human beings or their money.
Those are some interesting points - and I will freely admit that I know next to nothing about the worlds of either women's fashion, or high fashion.
Something in that last comment made me think though. I know that one of my goals as I reshape my body is to let myself buy clothes that are designed to either look good in and of themselves, or that look good on me, rather than ones designed to disguise the way I look. It goes back to that traditional question, "Hey, do these make my butt look fat? No, that would be the ice cream's fault." Maybe its my fault for not finding my previous shape terribly attractive but, well, I didn't.
So the clothes that I'm looking at these days are not only cut differently for different body types, but their designed with a different purpose in mind. Flattering through exposure (not as in skin exposure, but transparency - no, not cloth transparency, you know what I mean), rather than flattering through deception. Its a very different design goal that leads to some quite distinct design changes as a result.
Richard, did you get that Lagerfeld is not complaining about having his clothes scaled up to plus sizes? A 14 in UK is the equivalent of a 10 in the US. I don't understand why he agreed to design for a regular misses' line and then makes a big stink about it going up that high. Some designer clothes do top out at a smaller size and some, regardless of what size they say they are, are just teeny-tiny. But if he didn't know what kind of line he was designing for, he's an idiot.
Agreed, if that was the case. And I was thinking about the American size 16, which is quite a bit larger than what was apparently being discussed. From the article:
Lagerfeld, 66, threw a tantrum when High Street chain H&M enlarged them to fit the average UK female shape - size 14-16.
The designer - once heavily overweight until he lost seven stone - sneered: "What I really didn't like was that certain fashion sizes were made bigger.
"What I created was fashion for slim, slender people. That was the original idea."So there seems to have been some difference of opinion as to what the actual idea was. That's why I'm thinking that this is more likely a business dispute than a fashion dispute. Lagerfeld obviously didn't want H&M to resize his clothes, but apparently contractually they're allowed to - bad call on his part. H&M wanted a full line of clothing designs, but apparently only recieved a smaller line - which they presumably accepted contractually, so that makes me wonder what's really going on here.
Bottom line seems to be that there was a bad business deal (at least from a contractual obligation standpoint), and that both parties are trying to show each other in the worst possible light. It certainly sounds like Lagerfeld is not, and has never been, a full size-range designer - which makes him a curious choice for H&M as someone else had pointed out. But we'll probably never know the full story.
In response to the question "Does anyone ever get this worked up about petites?"
The answer is "yes." I do. While the clothing in the petites section was height-proportional, when I was heavier I could never fit my fat ass into them. And plus-sized clothing operates under the delusion that all fat women are tall.
For the record, Karl Lagerfeld is welcome to suck it.
That is all. : )
Considering being overweight is a health epidemic, and yes, if you're a size 14, you're overweight, unless you're 6 ft tall. I don't see why we arn't all trying to drop a few pounds for the good of our own health. That doesn't mean you need to be a size 2. Taking great personal offense to Mr Lagerfelds comments is simply you blowing the comment out of proportion.
From a design perspective, I agree with all the statements about clothing fitting differently on different sized people. If he designed for thin women, then he DESIGNED FOR THIN WOMEN. Karl Lagerfeld is a man who normally designs CHANEL Couture, the fact that he allowed anything with his name on it to be sold for H&M prices is amazing in itself.
If it were my designs being screwed around with, designs that were not ment for a curvy woman, then he has every right to be angry.
I agree above, Perhaps Karl, once being over weight himself feels that people that are themselves overweight haven't the need for his clothes. I have been in the fashion industry for a number a years and am AMAZED to see the huge gap that has grown in sizing. Americans although seemingly obsessed with the unhealthy skinny model are outrageously fat. A size 14 woman is overweight, yet a size 0 six foot tall woman is unhealthy also. I am a size 4 and not because I starve myself or am blessed with a freakish metabolism, I take care of myself. Everyday I hear complaints from overweight woman that "nothing cute fits me" I am convinced that there is a fat mentality developed to protect the self confidence of an overweight person. It is amazing that he designed for H & M, and what a shame that the clothes were not made in greater quantity. I would have loved to affordably own a Karl Lagerfeld. Basically, get over it. Karl wanted to design for a healthy woman, and with moderation any woman can be healthy.
I can say that the pressure is definitely "on". Never in my life have I felt the need to trim down then I have over the last 2 years.
Its hard to get into anything that is super chic over a size 10.
I have dropped 40 pounds over the past 6 months, so I could start wearing the super trendy clothing that I see in stores like H&M, Zara, Bebe, Arben B., Donna Karan, etc. Before I couldn't even get my arm in one of their shirts in the largest size they carried.
Many of retailers and designers (and obviously we are not talking high fashion aka Karl Lagerfeld) don't go past size 14, and ya better believe it is not a "Misses" size 14 either. It seems like they cut the clothing "somewhere" between the Juniors and Misses category.
Its like as you're shopping and having to move from store-to-store because you're larger than say a size 14 and you just keep coming up empty because you can't find anything that fits you, can't find the styles you want or what you do find is ill-fitting --- this brings on this overwhelming pressure to lose weight so you can really, really buy the clothing you love thats located on the "smaller" end of the rack.
Personally, I got so frustrated shopping I gave in to the pressure and started losing weight just for that reason. The high fashion world really "slights" women who wear over a size 16, thats what really sucks! Cause Mr. Lagerfeld is one among many!
I would Like to say, that I am a size 14 US. I was really relieved when I walked into an H&M and found clothes that fit me and were cute, age appropriate, and flattering. I wanted to say thank you to H&M for doing this, because I was getting really sad about the fact that I couldn;t wear clothes from very many "normal" stores (i.e. express, limited, wet seal, arden B., etc.)
Ya know, people just want to be considered "Normal". I think it is strange that Karl is so obsessed with himself and his name and his brand. Who cares if they made some clothes to fit a whole size 10? If they don;t look flattering on those girls, then that isn't his problem, it's theirs. I think it should be someone's choice to or not to wear something. Designers shouldn't be making that choice for people. Why doesn;t H&M just put up a sign that says "fat people shop on this side of the store, and Skinny people shop on this side of the store". Yeah- I am sure that won;t alienate a few people over a size 10/12.
You know what really burns me up though, is that clothing chains and designers all come down to one thing, and that is money- the bottom line baby. And you know what? I have alot of good, hard-earned money to spend on nicely designed clothing that is flattering and trendy. If Karl doesn;t want my money, or any of the other millions of overweight women's money- then he can just say that. He is the one who will suffer from his ignorance. H&M needs to realize that fat people have money to spend, too, and they wil spend it if there is an appropriate product available for them to buy.
Actually, there is recent research to suggest that slightly overweight people live longer than thing people. When you're talking obese, then it's a health risk. In fact, I am a size 14 and I have a blood pressure of 120 over 70: this is the blood pressure of an athlete. I work out every other day and I eat very healthily, I just have a genetic predisposition to being the size I am.
So everyone here who says it's unhealthy has got it all wrong. It depends on the individual. And even if it was the case that being a size 14 is somehow unhealthy, I don't understand why the fact that you're unhealthy should mean you can't buy clothes that both fit and look good.
Nevermind H&M, but when I buy a garment that costs as much as Lagerfeld's designs do, I expect it to be tailored to fit me.
okay so he shouldn't have over reacted
but he is totally right
he designed his clothes for skinny people and thats who they are going to suit
im not saying that larger people shouldn't wear his clothes, by all means they should be able to wear what they like
but Lagerfeld is an icon. He has been in the industry for years and he knows that his clothes will always look best on skinny people because he designs them for skinny people; its not fashionable to be 'fat', and fashion is his buisness
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